Stephen Fry and Goebbels-like propaganda

My emails to the FOAR list.

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/foar/5cqXm-4fd_M/discussion

>”Stephen Fry compares current Russian discrimination against non-straights prior to their Olympics next year to German oppression of Jews prior to the Berlin Olympics before WW2.”

>http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/08/07/an-open-letter-to-david-cameron-and-the-ioc/

10 August 2013 

I am puzzled why Western intellectuals do not take closest allies of the UK and the USA in the Muslim countries to consider this issue. Does Stephen Fry mean that the situation with LGBT in Russia in the worst in the world?

I find the comparison of Putin with Hitler is ridiculous. It is similar to Goebbels propaganda.

11 August 2013

I am not sure what do you mean by “publicise the treatment of gays in Russia”. In Fry’s letter there is no analysis about what happens in Russia in this respect.

Have he analyzed “the treatment of gays in Russia”? Has he shown that “the treatment of gays in Russia” is comparable with treatments of Jews by Hitler?

He have just made a ridiculous claim. It is a propaganda in its clear form like by Goebbels. Take some political goal, find some ridiculous analogies, finished.

I am not fond of the recent laws in Russia. Yet, if one reads what the law says carefully without propaganda, and analyses the events that led to this law, one sees that this is a normal development in any society. One needs just to follow the recent history and study it carefully. In the USSR homosexuality was under the criminal punishment and it was not that long ago.

Take for example the history of this question in the USA. It took some time to come to the current laws. Why one should expect that such a development in Russia will be faster? The society needs time to adjust itself and it makes no sense to say that treatments of gays in Russia now is similar to the treatment of Jews by Hitler. The latter is just factually wrong.

Fry has all rights to criticize the treatment of gays in Russia. All I wanted to say that it is wrong to employ the Goebbels-like propaganda along this way.

12 August 2013

In my view the logic presented in Fry’s analysis is quite similar to logic that one finds in many examples of Goebbels propaganda.

You may want to look on how Goebbels writes on

The So-Called Russian Soul
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb11.htm

I guess that Fry’s thinking about Putin goes along similar lines: Putin is just a monster and this is a moral obligation of the Western World to get him at the International War Crimes Tribunal.

In general, I do not see a reason why, provided Fry has the right to compare Putin with Hitler, I cannot compare Fry with Goebbels.

13 August 2013

Let me repeat how I see Fry’s arguments.

1) Putin makes bad things with LGBT in Russia.

2) Hitler made bad things with Jews in Germany.

3) Hence Putin is equivalent to Hitler.

In my view, this is exactly Goebbels propaganda. Can one find some bad examples with LGBT in Russia? Yes, hence 1) is true. Can one find bad examples with Jews in Germany under Hitler? Certainly. Hence 2) is also true. Thereafter 3) follows automatically in Goebbels eyes.

In my eyes though one must first to define bad things in 1) and 2) and then show that they are equivalent. I have not seen that Fry has done it. Thereafter is my comparison of Fry with Goebbels.

Why do you believe that Fry’s comparison is a good analogy and my comparison is a bad analogy? I do not get it.

13 August 2013

In general, each society has its own tradition (inertia) and global communications as such do not influence tradition directly. This happens rather through direct human contacts.

There is a nice movie to this respect The Wedding Chest, when a French lady with his lover from Kyrgyzstan travels to Kyrgyzstan to his lover’s relatives. I have watched it in German under the title Kirgisische Mitgift. The movie is nicely done as it shows two different cultures in contact. You can think about on how to bring into that society the issue of LGBT by means of modern communications.

Or take Afghanistan. Do you mean that global communications will help the USA to find any way to proceed there?


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